lausanne reflections: peeling away manchurch

so one of the things that came out of yesterday’s discussions when we were looking at the christian faith existing in a pluralistic multi-faith society was the need to understand what we mean by church…

one of the problems that the church faces today is that what we see as church is a combination of what church is meant to be about (according to God and the Bible) plus tradition and style and denomination and flavour and emphasis and a whole bunch of stuff that is actually not church has crept (or been invited) in

how do we peel away what we have added to figure out exactly what Jesus intended for His bride? also not to say that all that stuff is necessarily wrong either – there is a lot of tradition/style/emphasis/denomination etc that is good and positive and adds to the experience and journey of church, but the danger is when we hold too tightly to some of that stuff and see it as the thing when it is in fact only the clothes of the thing

another question that came up is ‘do we have a gospel message that we can preach at different churches that is the same message?’ – for example if we take the message of the gospel and preach it at an affluent white church, is that the same message we will preach to a township church in a more povertous situation? and if not, then is that truly the gospel message?

for example, as an affluent western churchgoer you can take the prayer of jabez and read it and pray it and say ‘oh look, God blessed me with everything i want, therefore the prayer is true’ (or more honestly ‘it works’ as with other superstitions) – but then the question is would that same prayer and ‘consequence’ work for a Christ follower in a country where they are being persecuted and even killed for their faith? Not at all. Not in terms of how we have come to understand or interpret “blessing” and “territory enlargement” and so on. Therefore the question is, “is that the gospel at all?” and with the prayer of jabez it is a resounding “No!” – if we were able to take out of context prayers that were between a person and God from the Bible and apply them to our lives as if they were teaching then we would have to hold on to the prayers of Job and Jonah and Amos and Isaiah as well and then suddenly it’s not so much about me being happy and comfortable and having a big pile of stuff and selling all my books and so somehow it doesn’t seem to work…

the kinds of questions that may need to be asked with the manpeeling are some that a lot of people (paid Christian workers such as myself perhaps?) will find difficult to ask because it may mean we have to change some stuff and quite possibly get a lot more uncomfortable – questions like ‘is having a building church?’ and ‘is paying a pastor/worship leader/youth worker church?’ and so on…

also questions that would make the rest of the church start to get nervous such as, ‘is 5% of the people in a weekly gathering doing 100% of the work church?’ and is ‘this group is the evangelists and that group is the missionaries church?’

and so on.

blessed are the bible-flippers…

so bible-flipping is not an exact science but when i flipped open mine this morning and it landed on psalm 73, i think that was divinely nudged to the nth degree…

‘Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart.

But as for me, my feet had almost slipped; I had nearly lost my foothold. For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. They are free from the burdens common to man; they are not plagued by human ills. Therefore pride is their necklace; they clothe themselves with violence. From their callous hearts comes iniquity; the evil conceits of their minds know no limits. They scoff, and speak with malice; in their arrogance they threaten oppression. Their mouths lay claim to heaven, and their tongues take possession of the earth. Therefore their people turn to them and drink up waters in abundance. They say, “How can God know? Does the Most High have knowledge?”

This is what the wicked are like – always carefree, they increase in wealth.

Surely in vain have I kept my heart pure; in vain have I washed my hands in innocence. All day long I have been plagued; I have been punished every morning.

If I had said, “I will speak thus,” I would have betrayed your children. When I tried to understand all this, it was oppressive to me till I entered the sanctuary of God; then I understood their final destiny.

Surely You place them on slippery ground; You cast them down to ruin. How suddenly are they destroyed, completely swept away by terrors! As a dream when one awakes, so when You arise, O Lord, You will, despise them as fantasies.

When my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered I was senseless and ignorant; I was a brute beast before You.

Yet I am always with You; You hold me by my right hand. You guide me with Your counsel, and afterward You will take me into glory. Whom have I in heaven but You? And earth has nothing I desire besides You. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

Those who are far from You will perish; You destroy all who are unfaithful to You. But as for me, it is good to be near God. I have made the Sovereign Lord my refuge; I will tell of all your deeds.’

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

i’m not sure how pure my heart is, or how innocent i am, but i can relate to a lot of this right now. i don’t even know how honest it would be for me to declare ‘earth has nothing i desire besides You’ – in theory yes, but in practice i think i am too close to too much that this world has on ‘offer’ – i’m not feeling like a great Christ-follower right now – i’m not sure how my life positively impacts others to the extent that it should – which i think – and hope – is tied up in next year and the new thing and really needing a change and needing to be in a space of my day to day living impacting people. more.

i get deeply inspired by keith green and shane claiborne but i am so far away from living what any of them lived/live on a day to day basis. i am hungry for it though and that has to be a start. waiting on God and being inspired by words like those will help.

moses, the wind, and a staff of one

having had some cool conversations with a geneticist friend of mine (at least i think he would be called that cos he works with genes – are you a geneticist the pevin?) i find it quite exciting when science and God match up (as, according to my beliefs they always will, because i believe that God created science or at least the things that science tries to explain) – i don’t like it when people try use natural occurances to explain away God but if this is the way it happened then for it to be happening at the very moment that moses and his bunch of israelites needed it to and stopped at the precise moment they needed it to, then i am quite happy to see it as a God and science and nature thing…

http://technology.iafrica.com/science/675549.html

i’d rather you were an atheist than a ‘christian’

so, once we get past the mindless comments of people responding to the blog title and not actually reading it, what am i on about?

if you haven’t read my other blog about the christians choosing to become atheist (https://brettfish.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/a-theist-walks-into-an-atheist-bigbang-its-a-steel-atheist) i would suggest you begin there, cos this is a (s)equal of sorts…

so in the context of finding out that one of my church peoples had turned atheist over the varsity holidays, i have been giving this a lot of thort and i came up with this:

both of my friends who became atheist were christian and so they know the deal – they understand what the Christian-perceived Bible-teaching consequences of not being a Christ-follower are. they both know that if they have got this one wrong – and continue to stay in it – that they are in a LOT of trouble.

so, knowing the consequences of not being a Christ-follower, they are actively choosing against that and embracing another belief, and everything that goes with it

therefore, there are no surprises for them – they get that if they’ve got it wrong, it’s death. damnation to be more precise.

so it is an active step made, considering the facts or understanding or belief or perception or whatever, away from that

there are many ‘christians’ on the other hand (and i use a small ‘c’ as i always do to depict people calling themselves ‘christian’ but not necessarily following Christ at all) who think they are ‘in’ and ‘making it’ and ‘on their way to heaven’ and ‘damnation-free’ and so on, but who are one day going to stand before God and be completely surprised when He says, “Depart from Me, I never knew you!” [Matthew 7, towards the end, bible downstairs, me upstairs]

they are doing the stuff, going through the rituals, hanging out at church, maybe listening to the music and watching the (awful) movies, walking what they suppose is the walk, but completely missing the point

and as i have been thinking about this whole situation, i think that i would rather have you actively choose to walk away from Christianity and become an atheist (or something else) than be lulled into a false sense of security, thinking you are a Christ-follower when you clearly (at least to God who sees all) are not

“I never knew you” speaks of relationship, not religious hoops – it’s not about you didn’t do enuff stuff or you didn’t get enough people saved or you didn’t attend enough religious meetings or you didn’t try harder – it’s that you missed the primary number 1 key aspect of being a follower of Jesus which is loving God with all your heart and soul and mind (closely followed by ‘and loving your neighbour as yourself’ – matthew 22)

i would, obviously, rather have you follow Jesus with me. after all He claimed to be “the Way and the Truth and the Life” and said that “No-one comes to the Father except through Me” [john 14.6] and that is what i believe and am chasing (and being challenged a lot lately that i need to be more focused on the remaining in Him and building relationship with Him than all the other stuff i get caught up in, so that all the other stuff can flow out of being in a strong place with Him) and would love for you to be a part of

but if you’re not. if you choose to walk away. and pursue something else (because please don’t walk away from Christ-following and just sit around apathetically and believe nothing!) then i would much rather have you do that, than call yourself a ‘christian’ while completely not believing in any of it, or living any of it, but just miserably continuing to live out some kind of sick meaningless pointless waste-of-time facade.

what’s it gonna be?

a theist walks into an atheist… (big)bang – it’s a steel atheist

‘a theist believes in at least one god, but denies the existence of many gods’ [the skeptic’s dictionary]

whereas an atheist denies the existence of god completely

and ‘at heist’ is just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but that’s not important now…

a theist and an atheist – so vastly different and yet the difference between them is nothing… or ‘a space’ to be more precise…

[disclaimer: oh and by the way, this is one of those blogs that is more for me than for you – i am writing to think my thorts out loud, to process them, to do it publically in case anyone else is thinking/wrestling/engaging about the same kind of stuff, but i am not looking for answers, so please keep those to yourself – i am not asking you to solve anything – i am merely trying to process what is going on in my head, and maybe cause you to think a little]

i have worked as a pastory type guy at the stellenbosch vineyard church for almost 6 years now – in that time i have seen two christian guys become atheists – it’s kinda weird that to go from a theist to an atheist you have to lose the gap as opposed to creating one – it feels like it should be the other way around…

so if you were to be an outside evaluator of my work you would see that i started out with two christians and finished up with two atheists – i don’t think i’d score that well in pastoring school… and i know that i didn’t change them (i hope i didn’t change them) but it happened under my watch so to speak [which is ridiculous cos i don’t have a watch, except on my cellphone but to say it happened under my cellphone gets very confusing because it’s not that big a phone] and i didn’t have the answers or the proof or the experience to stop it from happening and so a part of me feels like it may as well have been my doing

[there are others who have been a part of our community in these last years who have moved away from God or christianity or both and that disturbs me as well, but to become an atheist is a step towards something, rather than just a step away from something, which is a lot easier to do]

so it does bother me in an i-failed kind of way to some kind of extent – i have something, my faith, my relationship with God, the purpose that gives me life – that is most-of-the-time so incredibly absolutely whole-heartedly real to me and even tho i don’t always understand it or have a complete explanational grasp of it, it is the very core of my being – and i have been unable to communicate or demonstrate or pass that on to these two guys in an adequate enuff way that had them going ‘this-is-real-this-is-for-me’ and that has to bug me, to frustrate me, to dishearten me. it has to. because i obviously believe that what i believe is truth and within that also lies the believed consequence for someone who doesn’t believe that (both when they die but even hugely now) and that should cause me great concern, and does…

but it’s not going to cripple me. it’s not going to knock me off my horse (and not just cos unlike mr terblanche i don’t actually have a horse, i have a rocking horse, but it’s a metaphorical one, and purely for aesthetics). i think i’ll be okay.

really? and why is that you may ask? [or i may go ahead and ask for you] – Because Jesus was okay with it!

there is a passage in luke i think it is (maybe john) where Jesus preaches a bit of a tough message and a whole bunch of His followers find it too strong a message and so they leave… and He lets them. and then turns to His disciples and asks them, “What about you? Are you also going to leave?” to which Peter replies, “Where shall we go? Only You have the words of Truth.” [And for me, that is a lot of the bottom line – i have struggles with some aspects of christianity, i don’t understand a lot of the Bible and how God works or doesn’t seem to work sometimes, but i have identified Jesus as having the words of Truth, it is in my gut and i cannot shake it and have not come close to hearing any other kind of more believable truth anywhere else]

then there is the story of the rich young ruler and one of the most powerful phrases in the Bible to me because when you read the story of Jesus you get the idea that in His interaction with the man, He knows from the beginning that it’s not going to be successful in terms of gaining another follower – and yet there is this phrase – ‘Jesus looked at him and loved him.’ And the rich young ruler walks away from Jesus disappointed and empty-handed, because the cost of following Jesus (all your stuff, I want you, and everything else you have made more important than Me in your life) is too much for him. And Jesus lets him go.

i don’t doubt for a second that the moment any one of those original followers or the rich young ruler had a change of heart and recognised Who Jesus really was and returned to Him and asked once again to be allowed to follow, that He would have instantly and with much joy received them back.

but He wasn’t going to chase them down to have them ‘follow’ Him for the sake of having extra followers… He wanted those who followed Him to be genuine. to believe (and even in the way of the father of the demon-possessed kid who, when Jesus challenged him, responded with, ‘I do believe – help me overcome my unbelief!” – that’s often my cry in certain areas of my faith at least). not to not have doubts, but to overcome their doubts (which is faith! – it doesn’t mean you don’t doubt, it just means the doubt doesn’t knock you down and leave you there)

and so i haven’t given up on these guys. i hope we will remain friends. i will pray for them. i will chat to them anytime they want to chat, and listen to them on their journey and hope that they will listen to me on mine. i won’t try and convert them (or unconvert them? reconvert?) but i hope we’ll still get to hang and play Settlers and whatever else comes along.

i do hope they will continue to challenge their beliefs now that they have walked away from one set. and not just settle for another because it is convenient. continue to wrestle guys, continue to question, hopefully continue to seek because God does say if you seek Me you will find Me and seeking meaning in the world always leads you to God at some stage. always. because He is the way and the Truth and the Life – it doesn’t take you believing it to make it true.

an atheist denies the existence of god completely

a theist believes in at least one god, but denies the existence of many gods

for the sake of the chores

so i have been married for about 14 months yesterday and i still completely highly recommend it if it is to the right person – it is not always easy – it is sometimes really hard – but it is incredible and the pros definitely outbeat-up-and-leave-bleeding-behind-the-shed the cons… and i love the beautiful Val – really feel privileged and lucky and amazed that i have someone like her in my life… yay.

the one thing that i have noticed and i was just wondering if it is an us phenomenon or whether other newly married couples have discovered this ‘gem’ is the bermuda triangleness of time that occurs once you get married [married people with kids don’t even bother posting responses cos my brain can’t even stretch this scenario to adding more people into the mix, especially little ones, with poo and stuff]

before we got married it felt like i had a lot of time – we saw each other a fair amount of time i think and i did a whole lot of stuff and had time for church and people and hockey and theatresports and silly computer games and and and…

and then we got married [and please don’t see this as a complaint – it’s not a complaint – more a general musing and a wondering if it’s just us or if others have noticed this as well] and for starters there were the dishes which i am convinced are procreating in our sink (at precisely the same time as aliens from another dimension are warping in and first beaming out all the teaspoons and then other clean things) and so we have a meal and we wash up (i love washing up most of the time so it’s really not a problem – i understand a lot of other people hate it) and then we turn our backs for 18 seconds and WHOOSH!! – full sink of dirty dishes, no clean teaspoons…

wash up seven times a day, make two cups of coffee and suddenly we have an overflowing sink of dirtiness – anyone nodding, smiling, sympathy crying?

and then there is the washing – tbV is a lot more diligent with the washing than i am altho i do try and take opportunities to fill the machine and throw in the powder and flip it on and take it out and hang it up on occasion – but you do a whole crapload of washing (three loads) after maybe a weekend away, and then you take two steps away and as you gasp in bemusement at the post 18 second WHOOSH!! that has just occured in the sink, your peripheral vision is starting to bleat out, “Mayday! Mayday!” and you’re like, “Don’t be silly, it’s mid-September” and pv is like, “no dude, seriously you got to see this” and you look around and BIG FILLED-UP-WITH-DIRTY-CLOTHES-WASHBASKET OVERFLOWING…

it’s a never ending cycle, and there are two of us now working at it – don’t get me started on cleaning the house (no, i mean really, don’t get me started on cleaning the house) and restocking toilet rolls and the bathroom and emptying the trash bags and buying electricity and shopping and and and…

then in terms of spending time with my wife, i absolutely love it and we spend quite a lot of time together, hanging, watching dvd’s, playing scrabble on- and off- line, and other games, talking, working together, etc etc but there just seems to be not enuff time to do all of it justice

like i could spend a week just playing games with my wife, or a week just chatting to her and dreaming out loud about the future and hearing where we are struggling and talking through family stuff and chatting what’s happening in the world or trafficking stuff or thesis stuff, i could spend a week watching dvd’s with her, i could spend a week listening to sermons and doing sodukos and laughing and a bunch of other stuff we like doing together (yes, yes, i’m talking about having settlers marathons) but there is just no time for it all so we sneak in a game of scrabble here and a few episodes of scrubs there and then we have to make a meal [left that off the list – love it, absolutely love cooking for her and with her and you do this whole marathon process and make a pretty amazing meal and it’s gone in ten minutes and the sink is crying out your name] and the dustbins need to go and there’s a meeting and oh wait she has a family and i have a family who kinda want to see us from time to time and she has friends and i have friends and we have mutual friends and just hanging with God needs our attention and there is still so much out there like mashie golf and skydiving and going away for a weekend and bigscreen movies and meals out and hip hop classes and the beach that needs our feet on it and robben island and the theatre and standup comedy and and and

is there any other new couple experiencing this bermuda triangle of time, because it certainly wasn’t around before we got married, but now it seems to… what? a full sink? but i didn’t… we didn’t… i’ve just… argh, gotta go… VAL, CLOTHES BASKET STAT!!!

the word church, ‘church’, church is a verb.

last nite at enGAGE (our sunday evening vineyard church congregation weekly gathering) we held an open mic vibe

not after ‘church’, not on a different day to ‘church’, not instead of ‘church’, but as church, and it was great

it was a celebration of some of the talents and giftings that God has placed in different people in our group and so we sat around tables and munched on chips and sweets and spinach and feta rolls (as one does) we watched some Flight of the Conchords (a band parodying a parody band and they nailed it!) and heard some songs and saxophone and watched some magically illusioned tricks performed by the Roy (who also excellently mc’d the event) and some photos on the big screen and some poetry (in two different languages) and hung out and gave God thankx and vibed

and then everyone pretty much got involved in the cleaning (you know, all the smashed piggy banks and burnt cards on the floor curtesy of the Roy) and setting up of the hall and a bunch of us headed off to our weekly hangout at Ginos for some drinks and to hang out with American Phil just before he heads back home

some people, a lot of people, would not call what happened last night ‘church’ cos we didn’t read out of the bible or have an official worship team leading us in worship or have a thirty minute preach or any of that…

but we had biblical stuff happening, and we welcomed and celebrated and called on God and He was definitely there in the midst of us, we had some words on celebrating community and if you really wanted to you would find reference to all of it in Corinthians 12, and we definitely had some worship going on courtesy of Megs ‘mountain’ and other songs and Phil’s worship songs and the photos we got to witness and all the living in and celebrating of community we did…

i love being part of a church where that’s seen as ok, no more than ok, where that’s seen as church

i’m not saying that what happens on a Sunday week after week in traditional churches is not church, cos it is, or a part of it anyways, but i am definitely saying that other expressions, other celebrations, other gatherings, other instances can also be church as well

as one pastory type guy made a few congregations and gatherings awkwardly try join him in the past in singing this refrain to a Fall Out Boy parody chorus – “Church is the people, it is, not, the, place”

let’s break that box. let’s do church.